tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-820798894846245311.post3398705950114904239..comments2024-02-03T20:47:08.995-06:00Comments on This Side of the Pulpit: Wish Dreams and LutheranismChristopher D. Hallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03906949438584923588noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-820798894846245311.post-63711610886846970012009-01-27T09:03:00.000-06:002009-01-27T09:03:00.000-06:00Dear Christopher:I have to join Weedon in saying t...Dear Christopher:<BR/><BR/>I have to join Weedon in saying that I don't think of this as a pipe dream at all. <BR/><BR/>There are indeed pastors and congregations that are fairly accurately described by Fr. Weedon's dream of a mission congregation.<BR/><BR/>The difference is that a mission congregation is less likely to resist based on the "we've always done it that way" defense for all of the unLutheran practices that have been inherited.<BR/><BR/>But even when our churches have been pummeled by Pietism and a bias against our Catholic heritage, pastors can turn back the tide - with patient, pastoral, and yet firm teaching. It may well take generations, but the point is to take steps - even small steps - in the right direction.<BR/><BR/>I think too many pastors are paralyzed with fear, and so they end up serving for thirty years and all they can point to is that they're almost ready to wear a crucifix (after a couple more years of newsletter articles and surveys). <BR/><BR/>I think we need to take some risks, but do so in a loving manner, being "apt to teach" and with a long-term view in mind.<BR/><BR/>I don't consider Weedon's musings as a *dream* so much as a long-term *goal* that, though long-term, is entirely doable.Rev. Larry Beanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705910892752648940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-820798894846245311.post-45751258482022268632009-01-26T20:51:00.000-06:002009-01-26T20:51:00.000-06:00As a layman, I guess I don't see a whole lot of di...As a layman, I guess I don't see a whole lot of difference (or distance) from where we are now.<BR/>What am I not understanding?Wess Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10702969969945479946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-820798894846245311.post-1190735934529032362009-01-26T13:37:00.000-06:002009-01-26T13:37:00.000-06:00I take what you are starting to get at as being su...I take what you are starting to get at as being summed up in the aphorism: "actions speak louder than words".<BR/><BR/>Mind you, this isn't a critique of Lutheranism alone. As to whether one believes in the Real Presence, look at how they act when the King is present and not only with the Gifts themselves. According to this standard, most Orthodox don't believe in the Real Presence as they chatter and sit and walk in and out paying little attention for much of the time after the epliklesis and before consumption (which takes place after the Liturgy in an Orthodox setting; meaning that Christ is present while people are chattering away as they kiss the cross and loiter in the nave).<BR/><BR/>Likewise, I would argue that Lutheranism's actions over the past while argue that not only the laity but the denominations in toto don't 'really' believe that all this 'Catholic stuff' is either allowable or useful, depending.<BR/><BR/>The question then arises as to whether this is the Holy Spirit guiding the Church in handling the tradition, or whether it is a fall or departure that needs fixing - another reformation.<BR/><BR/>I always like a phrase I have heard attributed both to Fr. Alexander Schmemann and to Archbishop John (Garklavs?) of the OCA: 'we don't reform Church; Church reforms us' (paraphrased). I guess that depends on what one means by 'Church' - is the LCMS (or WELS, or...) the Church or not such that 'it' can reform us?...123https://www.blogger.com/profile/14514075641944568806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-820798894846245311.post-20340599107559971612009-01-26T13:06:00.000-06:002009-01-26T13:06:00.000-06:00Thanks for commenting...and what you say anticipat...Thanks for commenting...and what you say anticipates some of my thoughts for the next post.<BR/><BR/>However, it is a wish in so far as it's not reality, and hasn't been for some time.Christopher D. Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03906949438584923588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-820798894846245311.post-29751272689476517312009-01-26T09:48:00.000-06:002009-01-26T09:48:00.000-06:00WHY does it have to be a fantasy? It IS our herit...WHY does it have to be a fantasy? It IS our heritage, dang it all. Why not claim it? Is there a way to work towards in our parishes today as they are? I think so. It really is just the description of our Churches from the Lutheran Church Orders for the most part. And, if we take our current hymnal seriously, it is the description of Church life that it would foster among us as well. Though it has long since been the norm, even our current orders presuppose Matins and Vespers as daily services!William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.com